Transcription

00: 00:11

00: Welcome to the IAA Mobility visionary Club Podcast. Here we explore the intersection of technology, transportation and sustainability. This podcast is created in collaboration with our knowledge partner, the Boston Consulting Group. In the Visionary Club podcast, our host is an AI generated voice, but the insights and perspectives shared by our guests are purely human. Each episode features two visionaries who bring their diverse professional backgrounds and personal experiences to the table.

00: 00:48

00: Today we welcome Ian CartobIano, vice president of advanced design at Toyota's Culti, and Pierre Leclercq, head of design at Citroen. Would you like to introduce yourself briefly? Ian, let's start with you.

00: 01:07

00: Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Ian CardibIano and as the AI. Agent said, vice president of design at Caltie in Newport Beach, California. And we're an advanced design studio for Global, Toyota and Lexus and had a long career here.

00: 01:25

00: Started out at Art Center, had stints in Japan, most recently in France for four and a half years. And it's been a great career. Thank you. How about you, Pierre? Please introduce yourself.

00: 01:42

00: Yeah, hi. So, my name is Pierre Leclercq. I'm a head of design at Citroen. Like Ian, I studied at Art Center, and I've been at Citroen Gear for the past four and a half years. I moved around a little bit and, yeah, I'm trying to disrupt the car industry, like, and I think creativity is what makes us live.

00: 02:09

00: Nice to meet you. In this episode, our guests will share their knowledge and expertise on topics such as automotive design, electrification, public transportation, software design vehicles, and future mobility. They will also provide personal anecdotes and insights that add a human touch to our discussions. Join us as we dive into the fascinating world of mobility and discover how it impacts our lives in ways we may have never imagined. Ian, Pierre, we have prepared questions for you.

00: 02:40

00: Would you like to. Know? No. No pressure. Any question?

00: 02:48

00: Any question. What steps do you believe should be undertaken to elevate the awareness and value. Of design within OEMs that starts really hardcore? That's a great question to empower. Design, I think will push OEMs forward.

00: 03:09

00: No, I think we have so many challenges. I think we're all learning as we walk, really, these days in the car industry. So there's so many things we need to change. Of course, innovation and design is more and more important more than ever, but we know that if we build the cars the way we used to build them, we will not reach the goals that we have to reach by 2040 or 50 depends on which companies. So we all try to reinvent ourselves.

00: 03:41

00: And obviously, I truly believe the design is a bigger than ever role to move the boundaries. Yeah. For us, I think.

00: 03:59

00: We'Ve been an. Engineering company and we still are, but I think recently, design has a greater and greater impact within our company. So, for example, our global design boss, Simon Humphries, has just been put on the board of directors for Toyota. So the impact on design, I think everybody realizes how important it is nowadays, especially as electrification in some ways is leveling the playing field of performance and quality. And so design has more responsibility to create products that stand out or provide.

00: 04:38

00: Unique.

00: 04:41

00: Use cases for our customers. So I think it's important for companies to promote internally the power of design because it's really an integral part of everybody working together to produce an amazing product. But I see that happening with all companies globally. It's actually a great time to be a designer in this industry. Thank you.

00: 05:05

00: Please choose your next question here. Why don't I try? Yeah, that was already a tough question. How about it was a tough question? Yeah, let's do another tough question.

00: 05:20

00: Electrification and future mobility, level three. What might be the subsequent progression in vehicle design and which elements are projected to have the most significant impact on the design of future vehicles?

00: 05:35

00: Well, I think it's interesting, again, if we phrase it in the future of electrification or future mobility, the way user, our customers interact with the interior is more critically important for future product.

00: 05:55

00: What is the quality of time spent in the interior? How do you interact with it? How do you bring the outside in. And the inside out? How do you use space when vehicle architecture is changing very dramatically?

00: 06:09

00: So how do we reimagine the space inside a vehicle? I think in our experience, that has been the biggest change driver in our vehicles, and everything we're developing moving ahead. So I'm sure at Citroen it's quite similar. Yeah, it's obviously an interesting topic.

00: 06:34

00: The autonomous driving technology is giving us so many great opportunities. And as jan, you're talking about the interior. Of course we can reinvent our interiors completely if we're using that technology, especially now. What I think is even more interesting is that if you start to put the mobility aside and talk about mobility and robots on one side and then the car industry on the other side, and I think it gives you even more possibilities of reinventing completely the experience you will have going from A to B. And actually, it's not only the driving experience, but it's, of course, services.

00: 07:20

00: So many possibilities in the medical field, for example, so many things to reinvent that are not cars, that are more architecture and new experiences. It's super exciting. Yeah, it's a great time. Thank you. Please choose your next question.

00: 07:40

00: Ian, I'm going to let you choose the questions. Okay.

00: 07:46

00: Let'S try software design vehicles, level one. Wow. Yeah. Artificial intelligence is a big trend overall. Do you foresee it potentially taking over the role of a designer in the future?

00: 08:00

00: Well, Pierre, you want to take that one first? Oh, yeah. It's funny because it's always towards the designers that we ask that question, but actually, I think artificial intelligence is just fascinating. I guess you're trying it as well. Jan and it could be a source of inspiration even in design, for exterior design, interior design, color and trim, video making, or imagery, you can use it in so many different ways.

00: 08:30

00: But actually, I think I see many jobs in the company that could be actually taken over by AI. I think in design, it's going to be a great source of inspiration, but you need someone who has a vision and a strategy. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it was interesting when the initial sketch programs kind of flooded the Internet last summer. There was a flurry of excitement in this studio, too, to use AI, and there was a big debate about what is the future role of designer.

00: 09:10

00: And I was a little bit on the it's a little scary replacing designers in the future. But as it's progressed, what I've discovered, what our teams discovered, is it hasn't replaced the role of human creativity. It's been a tool to enhance creativity. The interesting thing is, when it first came out, we were experimenting with it quite a lot. And as time has gone by, I've seen the team find new ways to utilize AI, where it's more of a subtle inspiration.

00: 09:45

00: And actually, I see more people hand sketching again, which is kind of an interesting yeah, it's an interesting shift, but no, we use it. And our company, we have a researched institute in Palo Alto, and they developed AI technology where a designer will create a vehicle. And the AI is actually designed to input aerodynamic improvements back into the sketch, so it brings the Aero team into the design process earlier. And that kind of interaction I find interesting, but hope human ingenuity and creativity is integral to the process for a long time to come. Thank you.

00: 10:35

00: Please choose your next question. All right, Pierre, I'm going to choose for us again.

00: 10:43

00: Let's see. All these questions are difficult. Technology level three. Considering the ongoing discussions about turning vehicles into phones on wheels, do you think it's feasible for cars to assume a role as integral to our daily life as our mobile phones? From a designer's perspective, yeah.

00: 11:03

00: You want to start? Well, again, all these questions are great. I've been hearing the phone on wheels thing for the last ten years.

00: 11:18

00: I kind of wonder if it will ever happen, if it hasn't happened already. I think cars are well, depending on where you live. Again, maybe in the center of Paris, car isn't totally critical, but still in California, car is a part of your daily life almost as much as your phone. I think there'll always be a different level of interaction. I think every company is working to integrate the life that you have on your phone into your vehicle, and a lot of it depends on the time you spend in the vehicle.

00: 11:57

00: So my commute in the south of France was 20 minutes through olive groves, and then here it's an hour and a half on the 405 freeway. So I think here I would rather have more of a phone interaction type of vehicle. But I think we'll get there. I don't think it'll be as integral as just pulling something out of your pocket and having the world at your fingertips. So Pierre, I don't know how you.

00: 12:22

00: Feel about I mean, I fully agree with, you know, the different parts of the world, different environments, ecosystem will make you want to buy different type of vehicles. I still believe there's very much of a love story in between human beings and the cars. Now, we talked about mobility before. There's no doubt that what has been done in terms of technologies in the phone industry is just amazing in terms of innovation. And software are much more powerful than any software we use.

00: 12:56

00: And no doubt as well that everybody wants to have onboard and off board experience that is just completely seamless. Now, do we want a phone on wheels, maybe for certain kind of mobilities, maybe with the autonomous driving technologies, if you're creating robots that will bring you from A to B and will reinvent the experience completely or services, then we need those technologies, fortunately. And I don't think I would do that job anymore if it was not the case. I think people have a certain love story when they buy a car. And the beauty, the aesthetics is also extremely important.

00: 13:49

00: Very. I mean, you have to honestly, you have to fall in love with a vehicle in order to spend that much of your income on it. Phone you replace every couple of years or something. But I agree with you totally. I agree in some instances phone on wheel is perfect for autonomous commuting or getting from A to B just to do something.

00: 14:18

00: But I think for me still, the joy of driving is crucial part of why we do this. Why are we working in this industry? So I think it'll be, again, a large part of the interaction, but just in a different sense. Thank you. Please choose your next question.

00: 14:39

00: Okay, let's do I'm just going to skip around here. Business models, level two. Do you think it is realistic to see a nontraditional car designer lead a car design studio in the future? I'll start yeah, I think it is, you know, just kind of dovetails very nicely with the previous question. If we talk about the future of mobility and bringing more of a UX UI product design interaction aesthetic into vehicles and how it relates to your daily life, then I think it makes sense to bring, in some cases a non automotive designer in to help direct the future of a company, especially if it's heading more into the mobility sector or commercial sector, where there's a lot of how do you use the vehicle on a daily commercial use, like a work site or delivery service?

00: 15:40

00: I think you already see this happening. And so, yeah, I think there's definitely opportunities for that to happen in the future. I don't know. Pierre, what do you mean? Like you said, it is happening and it is interesting.

00: 15:57

00: And I'm sure you also have in your teams young people that are not car designers to start with. So we're hiring product designers maybe. Exactly. Or people like that. And it is interesting because they have a different take on car design.

00: 16:14

00: Now, obviously, in the studio you have some people that are more specialized in maybe interior or in exterior. And I think whoever is visionary for the car industry and has a love of the car industry could lead it really well. I think you need to understand the opportunities, the things that could be done better and basically trust the people who were good in their specialties. And yeah, why not? Thank you.

00: 16:48

00: Please choose your next question.

00: 16:55

00: I'll do one more bracket. Let's do public transportation level one. Which do you think will hold more relevance in shaping the future of design development? Individual vehicles or public transit systems? I think that what we went through this past three years with COVID I think that people have never wanted more freedom than today everywhere in the world at different levels.

00: 17:28

00: But somehow, of course, public transport must and have to be completely part of the ecosystem of big cities or places like Paris, obviously. But people want to be also privately transported, whether it's their car or not. But they want to have the freedom of going anywhere and go there alone or with their family and the car industry. I would say that's one positive thing that happened with this crisis. Yeah.

00: 18:10

00: I mean, honestly, we had the same exact conclusion that there's a growing need in space for public transportation design. That's no doubt in congestion in cities and urban spaces, especially where we need to build. Here in California, public transportation is key and there's going to be a huge design, I think, expansion in that. Having said that, I totally agree with Pierre that the pandemic highlighted. People's need to have their free, their freedom in free space, freedom of mobility, freedom of movement, my time in my space, but also to take that space to move somewhere where you can then regroup with people.

00: 19:01

00: So I still think the individual vehicle, whether it's privately owned or shared, is going to drive design still for at least I would say at least the next 15 years. That's my thought. Thank you. Please choose your next question. All right, let's do design level three.

00: 19:28

00: What do you identify as the most significant trend in the field and what do you anticipate as the most significant obstacles that designers will face in the upcoming years? Whoa. Jeez. Want me to take that one first? Yeah, I'll take a stab at it, see if I can answer that.

00: 19:48

00: Well, I think know for everybody. Pierre. I'm guessing Pierre myself. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm repeating myself, but electrification, the massive change of platforms, that at its core, is the big, gigantic change in design I felt in the last ten years. And not only in aesthetics and vehicle architecture, but in development speed.

00: 20:23

00: We talked about AI a little bit earlier, but I would say the speed that we develop design in vehicles now is many times faster than when I first started. And sometimes it can feel a little relentless, honestly, but it's also exciting at the same time. So I think process and architecture is being changed by electrification, to me, the biggest obstacle. It's kind of an interesting obstacle. I never really thought about it until it was just asked that there's so many new EV car companies that there seems to be new design happening every other day.

00: 21:12

00: And so it's interesting to see how to remain different from everybody else to how to create your own iconic image, your user story, your brand identity, how to remain independent and strongly identifiable as who you are within an increasingly crowded field. That's what's been kind of interesting for me. I don't know, Pierre, how you feel. Fully, fully in line with you, of course. And I think we can talk about, I think of two other things that changed the way we were completely is first, think of social media.

00: 21:59

00: We're thinking of Pinterest and obviously and now artificial intelligence. More than ever, you have to make sure that you have a certain vision and you know where you want to go. And you try to be different, because basically what happens with AI and Pinterest and all those inspirations that all our designers have and that we have, we all end up collecting the same images and being inspired. Exactly. And that's a very difficult thing when you actually you have so much more, so much more access to so many things.

00: 22:34

00: And it's great on one hand, but how do you differentiate yourself from the others? Because obviously it doesn't bring anything if all the brands are doing the same things. So that's one big challenge I see that we have. The other thing is with, of course, all the social problems that they are in the world.

00: 23:00

00: You have to think of mobility for all. And of course, for me, being a designer in a premium brand years ago, or being a designer now in a brand that is more, let's say, popular in a good sense, is very different. So when you think that in a country like France, average price of a car is in between 2020 €5000, there's less than 10% of the people who will spend more than €35,000 on a car. I mean, that alone for Western Europe.

00: 23:37

00: You must also think differently in the way you make cars. Of course, we're also here to make profit, but you have to think of how to make cars and to bring mobility for all. It doesn't mean that the car shouldn't be sexy. It has to be beautiful. People have to fall in love with it.

00: 23:56

00: But it's difficult to bring cars for everyone. But I think that's something that some brands really have to do. I just want to add on to that because I love what you just said, because I totally believe in your Citroen and Toyota. We design vehicles for everybody around the world, and that type of challenge, I think, is what keeps the job fresh. It's what's kept me motivated in my career that at one moment, you can design a car that's on the expensive side.

00: 24:34

00: But honestly, one of my favorite projects was working on the new entry level truck for Southeast Asia, where the target price was quite cheap, but the product still has to be really great with a lot of value and a new business case for that region. And I think that, to me, is really true design. A true designer doesn't just style exotic cars all the time. They think about the problems the world face and how do we create solutions for environments and societies all around the world. So, mobility, for all I know, we talk about it a lot as well, but I think it's truly important.

00: 25:24

00: That's just a great point. Thank you. Please choose your next question. Okay, let's say technology level one. How significant is the distinction between physical and digital interfaces when it comes to designing touch sensitive controls and buttons?

00: 25:44

00: I'm not someone who believes in the fully digital world. I think you have to get the best use cases, and I truly believe in the physical world and see what your fingers have to touch buttons. You have to find the best ergonomy for any function in the car and then decide whether it's going to be digital or physical. But I think to be analog for some functions is great. Yeah.

00: 26:17

00: Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I think every vehicle, every mobility company at the moment, is wrestling with that question. So I think we internally are debating it as well. A lot of it. We're wondering about the generational shift. When you think about Gen Z, Gen Alpha, do they still need physical buttons or not?

00: 26:45

00: Or knobs? My personal opinion is physical sensation, at least for some key functions, is still really important, especially if you're still in control of a vehicle, having that muscle memory of volume up or down. Simple, simple functions. I personally think it's important, but we're investigating all different ways to develop that interaction. It's not an easy question at all.

00: 27:20

00: So we're wrestling with that problem already. Again, it's a challenge when you do worldwide cars, of course, because it's very different in terms of generations, as you said, and it's very different in different parts of the world, actually. Yeah, I mean, I think when we think about interior interaction design for China, again, it's very different than North America. And then of course, it also depends on the price point or the target level for the it's. It's interesting.

00: 28:01

00: I don't think there's one when you're a company as big as Toyota or Stellantis Citron, I don't think there's one catch all solution, honestly. It's time for our last question. What are your expectations for the next IAA Mobility and what are you looking forward to? For me personally, I loved I attended in 21 and it was maybe the first auto show post pandemic where there were people and for me it was really invigorating to see the industry come together. And also the show was most of it was outside, which I thought was revolutionary way to display vehicles.

00: 28:47

00: So I personally am looking forward to seeing kind of the next step in technological breakthrough in design, and especially where the car makers are going for mobility, electrification, interior solutions, and also just to catch up with old friends. On a personal note, I can only agree with you. Of course, we used to go to every show and I know it's a great opportunity to meet our friends and to have an interesting conversation, to be inspired. I mean, it's a great place to see cars and to be today. Sometimes on some website, you don't even know whether it's a student project or a project exactly company.

00: 29:38

00: And it's incredible because of course, the student projects are so well done, so realistic, and to go to a show in like Er that tries to really reinvent the way we do a car show, it's exciting because we will be inspired, but by what we see. And a car is a physical object. You cannot only locate it on Internet. And I'm really looking forward to it. Nothing beats seeing something in person.

00: 30:11

00: Absolutely. That's always the best powerful insights. That's all the time we have for today, unfortunately. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

00: 30:24

00: All right, thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode. Of the IAA Mobility Visionary Club. If you liked what you heard, please consider giving us a review to stay up to date on all things IAA Mobility. Follow us on our social channels.

00: 30:41

00: They're linked in the description for you. The IAA Mobility Visionary Club podcast is produced in cooperation with our knowledge partner, the Boston Consulting Group. See you next episode.