00:00:04: Welcome to Episode four of our five-part Visionary Club special series recorded live during the IAA conference

00:00:12: at IAA

00:00:12: Mobility, and brought exclusively for our podcast listeners.

00:00:19: In this episode Hanna Baumgarten Open Innovation Manager at Glock & Play Anna Buchmann CEO at NOCA And Frank Aldorf co-founder and CIO at LEMO Future talk about strategic growth opportunities, an investment potential in the bicycle and urban mobility industry.

00:00:39: Sit back and enjoy!

00:00:54: You're like a print expert and strategic growth experts already, lot of years.

00:01:00: But now you are working for E-Bike Company Lemo per se the right way And actually supporting them to grow To have the right branding in the right placement.

00:01:11: We will speak more about your experience.

00:01:13: Thankyou for being here and maybe give him a warm applause.

00:01:18: Thankyou.

00:01:20: And then Anna CEO & Co founder from NOKA just learned No car because you started with hardware.

00:01:28: Now, are fully in the digital world actually making that transparent off-the-data for the whole supply chain or the bike industry and really excited to hear about activities we do around transparency how your clients help save money as a no-prane operator.

00:01:45: Thank you so much for coming over from Hamburg!

00:01:53: kick off the topic.

00:01:55: A little bit on a personal note, like why are you in the industry?

00:01:58: When did you actually realize that... You really want to try for change of mobility and re-imagine how we come from A to B. Maybe Frank will sit next me

00:02:09: as I start.

00:02:10: As you said i'm into business longer already so it's not something where.. I have point out three moments.

00:02:19: The first one is probably fifteen to almost twenty years ago when I helped launch smart cars in Germany and Europe.

00:02:31: And seeing this micro car, how it changed people's minds as well.

00:02:39: so that was for me one of the first moments.

00:02:41: like you can change things by providing a different product launching the first e-bike when I was at Specialized.

00:02:56: So again, like seeing how e-mobility and bike...the perception of people in bikes really changed with E. so that's second one.

00:03:10: And third would be every time a study comes out it talks about all other additional benefits of being on a bike or on a pedal-assist product and it's an environment, you know society.

00:03:28: So these three things keep me going in this industry.

00:03:32: Amazing!

00:03:33: Thank you so much for that.

00:03:34: And how many bikes do your own?

00:03:37: At the moment its around ten in my garage.

00:03:42: That is excluding ones from wife to kids.

00:03:44: but yeah... You collect little bit different Nice.

00:03:48: It's a good

00:03:49: number, always morning deciding which bike you take to work perfectly.

00:03:53: Anna what is your perspective and how many bikes do you own?

00:03:57: So I have one bike.

00:03:58: um i actually do own LMO.

00:04:01: it's one bike for everything.

00:04:03: if its my choice in the future i will have

00:04:05: three

00:04:05: a gravel an e-bike and a cargo bike.

00:04:08: but i think my moment of how i ended up in mobility and i haven't been in the industry as long as frank has.

00:04:15: I did hear though, once you're in your inner you never get out.

00:04:19: So i am looking into a very bright future.

00:04:23: Before I co-founded Nocar In my previous life I was working with entrepreneurs all over the world and spent year and half on India And at that time in twenty fifteen Indian mobility for A person like me who wasn't from The place Was actually quite challenging.

00:04:39: Taking the bus taking the bike Driving around was something I was very uncomfortable doing in a massive city of thirty million people.

00:04:50: And when i realized how important mobility is for everyday life and then came back to Berlin, it's just so easy going into the tram take my bike go round the city at four am not having to worry about getting home.

00:05:04: that was for me a pivotal moment.

00:05:07: you know what?

00:05:07: The bike industry... full transparency, but it's so worthwhile to make every single mode of transport accessible for everyone when they need.

00:05:20: So I'm super proud that i actually ended up right

00:05:22: here!

00:05:23: Beautiful and we're really happy to have you in this industry looking at your both companies and in your opinion... Of course a lot people speak about biking and all this micro-mobility.

00:05:35: It is the boom now, its trend.

00:05:37: everybody goes over it if you are dirty or get a bike.

00:05:40: But how do we really make it as like a proved business model, approved mobility for the future?

00:05:48: Frank if you want to start.

00:05:49: Proved mobility for The Future.

00:05:51: It's like future-proofed mobility is our topic right!

00:05:53: Oh yeah I think that... We have to rethink the city and To me its like this City needs to become an operating system.

00:06:08: And within this future-approved mobility, it would mean that any journey below sub seven K with default into micro mobility.

00:06:23: This then actually the system works.

00:06:28: and what means is you have protected lanes, safe spaces for all the different beakers.

00:06:39: You have curb space that is really dynamically priced for parking or charging and locking.

00:06:50: And one entry point app does it all!

00:06:56: You also have modular products.

00:07:01: Yeah, I think that would be... everything will work in future-proof mobility.

00:07:09: It's really like having one network and different players come together to make sure it seems less

00:07:16: great?

00:07:16: Exactly!

00:07:17: Anna what is your perspective?

00:07:18: Actually i'd love to build on the analogy friend you gave for this city.

00:07:23: so maybe just an FYI my perspective usually from industry.

00:07:26: So I've gotten insight of how do different players at the industry works And the same ecosystem and the same kind of flows that you need.

00:07:35: We also need in industry, especially with data That's both inside a company.

00:07:40: Data needs to be properly managed.

00:07:42: It needs flow freely To be groundwork for functioning processes For functioning supply chains or teams looking behind the curtain and understanding where are the blockers.

00:07:59: What do we need to be free-to prove?

00:08:01: We can discuss on what that means, if you look at cycling as an industry... You see growth has been super constant for decades!

00:08:10: It's super reliable it is very steady And then obviously we had this spike during Corona and then fall afterwards I think in a hope of learning that these kind of external factors and automotive, I guess it would be the tariffs.

00:08:26: It wouldn't be semi-conductors at some point.

00:08:28: I think a future proof industry needs a functioning process... ...it needs to function in data ecosystem.. ..and it needs a functional company.

00:08:36: And that ecosystem inside the company across the supply chain is what can then build the groundwork for exactly that.

00:08:44: This makes perfectly our next topic right?

00:08:47: For future proof you need scale or you should grow and looking at the data, I think now e-mobility or e-bikes growing around twelve percent each year.

00:08:56: This is of course a really good number.

00:08:58: but kind of continuing on you Anna like with supply chain there are not so many pieces rounder.

00:09:03: bike to be efficient somehow needs know where things coming from how it will more efficient.

00:09:09: maybe you can say little bit more what maybe Noka's doing about actually see in industry.

00:09:14: So with no car, we are providing a system to manage product data in the first place.

00:09:18: It's actually pretty simple.

00:09:20: it has been out there.

00:09:21: you know exactly what other different parts In a bike how do they come together?

00:09:25: How are their being produced and which bike then contains What part And that's the groundwork for them have service for health propping marketing and sales To have compliance processes built on top.

00:09:35: and what We Do different is that we industry specific.

00:09:38: That means in The end were building Industry-Specific Data Models And these data models allow for processes to be fine-tuned... ...to the needs of industries.

00:09:47: No matter if it's cycling, sports goods or furniture that can be applied anywhere and then I'm going to drop the buzzword everyone is talking about.

00:09:56: with this kind of data model AI will become so much more useful because what we see now in an industry no matter if cycling or not there is a shit-in-shit out problem.

00:10:05: excuse my French If you don't have a proper database and a proper data model, You're going to train agents on the wrong things.

00:10:15: Because how are they supposed to learn?

00:10:17: How do they know industry-specific information that's not available on the internet?

00:10:21: So your data internally in a company is so significant And useful and valuable That you should make sure it's in the right structure.

00:10:30: Basically what we doing for component suppliers from manufacturers Then push into end of supply chain.

00:10:36: And in terms of transparency and efficiency, obviously all of that builds into automation.

00:10:41: It builds into having a proper data quality making sure whatever information is at the start or supply chain gets to end when you have their transparency button forth.

00:10:50: And this really helps then as well.

00:10:51: to scale, right?

00:10:53: Exactly.

00:10:53: You actually don't end up with the things you maybe still have to fix or figure out but you can scale your business and build faster and cheaper at the end.

00:11:02: I've seen examples where in manufacture all of a sudden was missing twenty five years on their bill of materials.

00:11:08: so it's kind of like recipe for that bicycle.

00:11:11: Then if you built one hundred thousand models those twenty-five euros matter.

00:11:16: That is something you really want to make sure.

00:11:17: You know where that goes.

00:11:18: and just backtracking, because there was no data system in place.

00:11:21: it wasn't incredibly painful And honestly that kind of time and that pain you can save It's unnecessary.

00:11:27: look great

00:11:27: I think this efficiency a big thing.

00:11:29: but as well to scale and close going more on your expertise like having A strong brand i think its very helpful for customer decisions.

00:11:38: what kind Of bike I want to buy?

00:11:40: For the ones who maybe are not expert experts on every piece of The bike What is your experience right now to support younger brands, really stand out in the industry?

00:11:50: Yeah.

00:11:51: It's something hard because it's an over-saturated market and for me I would call this a mix of edge and engine.

00:12:02: so then its best to look at a market that underserved.

00:12:09: and within this underserved market you'll look at micro segment.

00:12:14: You like laser sharp cater to this segment because you will not be able to out shout in such an over saturated market.

00:12:24: Um, he would not be ableto outshout your competition but it can outsharpen the competition and so you catered today's micro-segment really well with a hero product.

00:12:36: we have two three non negotiables that has been in his products and you provide an outstanding design language that people can spot right away from thirty meters away or get in like two seconds when they see it.

00:12:55: I would say, its easy in this environment because a lot of things look very much the same.

00:13:02: yeah thats kind where your build your edge.

00:13:07: You'd not only want to create like a hero product, but you wanna create like platform.

00:13:12: You wanna then create an operating system that has connectivity over the air features other finance options, theft protection and so on And this operating systems is combined with the hero products.

00:13:33: how do you differentiate in these?

00:13:37: And next to the operating system, you have... You build equity in community and want a DTC model.

00:13:52: What are saying is not look-and-feel as only needed?

00:13:55: You need that whole system!

00:13:57: Yeah

00:13:58: but it already plays out right.

00:14:00: Exactly

00:14:02: I think this builds perfectly on sustainable business models.

00:14:05: Like what I just mentioned, like sixty percent of our missions come from transportation bikes could we reply in cities?

00:14:12: But you have to make money out of it.

00:14:14: any extra sort from your bows and this direction.

00:14:17: how do really create a sustainable business model for the bike industry.

00:14:21: don't stay.

00:14:22: You since don't fight

00:14:24: sorry

00:14:25: Don't fight.

00:14:28: No i think is sustainable business where your cash flows are actually circular as the materials that you use, right?

00:14:42: So for me I would look at three different areas which one will be recurrences with kind of over-the-air features and so on.

00:15:03: ownership and then thirdly it's repair.

00:15:08: And that is what you mentioned earlier, how do we build these products?

00:15:13: You want to use components widely used but not very specific because a lot of companies broke their neck already.

00:15:22: I like the circularity saw as well about bringing them back in this system so i think its really good point.

00:15:28: thankyou Anna.

00:15:29: do u have anything add on?

00:15:30: I think the only thing that i would add is when we look at companies and analyse how they're doing from obviously a data perspective, We always look at people processes & solutions.

00:15:44: For get-solutions there's loads of software providers out there right?

00:15:48: So in order to have a sustainable business model what really needs to happen Is as well looking for your processes.

00:15:54: Don't just look like How can you make more money but also save money.

00:15:57: And it's a widely overlooked area where companies can become so much more efficient, and cost-effective.

00:16:07: Because when you see what sometimes happens in these processes that haven't been properly set up or people have not been trained on them—and this is the people perspective—you can see saving potentials of six figures.

00:16:18: That's crazy to me because it's an easy thing!

00:16:21: It isn't like I need a new product but go into your market... In my existing setup there are actually lots of savings that i could do.

00:16:28: So that's the only thing I would add to what Frank has already said.

00:16:31: Of course, we don't want to sell your company but let say if somebody cooperating with you is it a good turn on investment for them?

00:16:38: To get your data set up right way

00:16:43: like I can't say

00:16:44: no perfect right um

00:16:45: But yes yeah i mean of course It doesn't matter If its if it's our solution For a small startup and might still be an excel sheet Its just from the very beginning.

00:16:54: think about these things.

00:16:55: Don't over engineer.

00:16:56: as a startup You have to survive.

00:16:59: That's your

00:16:59: own goal, you survive.

00:17:00: Think about how you can scale?

00:17:01: Exactly and I think there is this point or usually throughout the journey there are breaking points where your current systems don't work.

00:17:08: And if you have a good basis then go to that next breaking point into the next level.

00:17:12: You'll have much easier time to implement processes solutions and train people on what they need for their scaling.

00:17:20: This

00:17:22: is a good thing that I'm working for VC company.

00:17:24: So it looked a little bit and like, okay how's the money right now flowing?

00:17:27: And i just found good numbers from micro mobility.

00:17:30: things are two point seven US dollar right now invested in it as they think its really good number.

00:17:38: but live within your direction because of course if you want to grow your company or you build your startup product How is currently your view point on investments?

00:17:48: We see money enough.

00:17:49: Of course, you make money if sell bikes and how it was venture-clienting with partnerships.

00:17:54: What's the perspective right now?

00:17:56: maybe Anna You can start because you have a few business angels in your team The other new team but as investors

00:18:02: They're part of the team.

00:18:04: So I would say that cycling or micro mobility There are two trends And they are conflicting Because nothing makes sense.

00:18:16: The investors who have been burned in the past with micro-mobility solutions, especially during Corona.

00:18:21: a lot of money flowed into their industry and that has evaporated.

00:18:25: Then on the other side you have this trend where as I said when we look at the growths of cycling for example it is super sustainable.

00:18:34: It's almost a safe bet And i think its an industry ready to disruption because there are relatively conservative for such long time And they now need to do things.

00:18:43: There is regulations coming, there's electrification coming... ...there are more digitalization companies.

00:18:50: so many things can happen and that makes it a really exciting space.

00:18:53: The one thing I believe or two things I think micro-mobility in Cycling needs to build their own early stage investment ecosystem.

00:19:00: That's gravely missing.

00:19:03: Number Two We can learn from automotive in how corporates are working with startups.

00:19:09: So obviously, we're a B-to-B software startup from Berlin.

00:19:11: who would have thought but in Berlin there is or that used to be so many programs between Automotive Corporate's Who Would Get In Startups and they will help them work With the business units understand How They Can get Into These Large Companies To Place Their Products Or Develop Solutions.

00:19:27: And I wish for our industry that our players start doing this because as an industry to grow, innovate and become future-proof we need startups.

00:19:38: We need to actively support these startups

00:19:41: in both directions right?

00:19:42: The corporation needs the startup's as well to innovate and XA long term.

00:19:46: interesting and other way.

00:19:47: the startups... I won't

00:19:48: get in there!

00:19:49: Perfect

00:19:50: then i come to you Frank but let us say investors have Do you like what is the most benefit?

00:19:57: Of course, money's always nice.

00:19:59: But as well there's strategic input from them or it.

00:20:02: right now the status more okay.

00:20:04: we need to money for investors

00:20:05: and money has always great.

00:20:08: Money helps grow a business but I think depends on this stage.

00:20:15: We don't have big strategic investors yet, but we have people from the industry and they have been essential in making introductions.

00:20:22: And getting us through the door just putting me in front of some of their networks has been ultra helpful

00:20:28: like a proof that they're invested in.

00:20:30: you believe it

00:20:32: exactly to.

00:20:32: obviously as a startup you also want be careful.

00:20:35: We are platform.

00:20:35: we don't wanna side with one company.

00:20:39: But I think if you can manage a very good balance between financial investments and the investors who will help you scale from a financial perspective, so they might help your fundraise in the future.

00:20:49: Plus having investors to understand that industry who can get you into right networks?

00:20:53: Who helped you grow and get clients?

00:20:56: My

00:20:56: absolutely excuse my French again wet dream is that someone has taken me around your mic And it's just like everyone knows them and saying look this is Anna You need to test their solution.

00:21:06: That what helps me more than Now.

00:21:09: that's not true.

00:21:09: That helps me more, there you want both!

00:21:11: Exactly I'm out at all

00:21:13: Nice.

00:21:14: and then Frank because your work with corporations right like big automotive companies.

00:21:18: NIO is one of the partners.

00:21:21: How this going?

00:21:21: Is it a strategic partnership or are they invested?

00:21:24: And what would say as well to other bike company?

00:21:28: What would be your suggestion?

00:21:29: Yeah i can say this way I think strategic partnerships totally believe in them And these are growth drivers.

00:21:40: I like venture planting, and what i like about this is not the strategic capital... ...I think it's the commercial excess you're getting.. ..is really that primary lever there?

00:21:54: So its'n't the capital itself but it's a commercial access.

00:21:58: You get

00:21:58: access to their customers?

00:22:00: For example yes!

00:22:05: now had with Lemo Zero, our second product.

00:22:08: And so this was a whole new experience and to me something like this... You mentioned more of these.

00:22:15: bigger corporations is needed much more.

00:22:17: we need to work together.

00:22:20: This is good example.

00:22:23: Lemon Zero was the foldable bike?

00:22:25: Yes it's the fold-able bike.

00:22:28: It was offered for the new customers first And their whole ecosystem and they have a shop there, it's only for new customers in China.

00:22:39: There is much

00:22:39: more lifestyle product right?

00:22:40: If I go from A to B for work... ...I can fold my bike!

00:22:43: Yeah that idea of four plus two.

00:22:45: so you're extending the range So we'll drive somewhere then continue our journey on two wheels.

00:22:53: So kind of combining mobility with snake mobility.

00:22:57: Love it a little bit.

00:22:58: looking at the time we have six more minutes and i have more questions but I thought maybe somebody in the room has a question.

00:23:05: anyone

00:23:06: had a question to Frank & Anna?

00:23:12: easy.

00:23:12: Have three more... no, no, don't do that!

00:23:15: So you

00:23:15: want just stop

00:23:16: it?!

00:23:17: No is there a question?

00:23:20: Ah perfect.

00:23:23: Easy then I have a question.

00:23:25: four more.

00:23:25: actually what will I think may turn through Mooma?

00:23:28: so

00:23:29: vision future outlook Or when you like looking ahead for a twenty-thirty or twenty forty, twenty fifty.

00:23:37: You can look so much in the future if want.

00:23:40: what does The Future Proof Mobility Look For You?

00:23:45: Frank?

00:23:46: yeah I think that's That' s What i said earlier already.

00:23:48: So it is Like.

00:23:49: It Is Like The City Becomes This Operating Operating Model Like An OS And Within this Everything That'S Below Seven K is micromobility, defaults to micro-mobility.

00:24:05: And this only happens if the whole system works and it works when certain things are in place that I mentioned earlier already.

00:24:13: yeah um...and uh..and if this happens then you know micro mobility solutions become the default for everything under seven k so that will be a dream.

00:24:24: It's probably not twenty thirty but we get there eventually and I have high hopes.

00:24:31: So...

00:24:32: And i think it's good to dream, right?

00:24:33: Like when you have your North Star where you want to go Yeah!

00:24:36: ...and can make the decision in the right direction.

00:24:39: If we fail then this is the biggest proof that we're the dumbest species on this planet.

00:24:43: Earth.

00:24:44: We gave all of our bests too Good failing as well.

00:24:48: now You can dream!

00:24:50: So..I would look at it through four different lenses.

00:24:54: I will look at mobility to be safe accessible, sustainable and affordable.

00:25:02: Safe in terms of no matter which mode of transport I choose.

00:25:06: i can do it without feeling fledged on the road.

00:25:08: Accessible there's mobility for every use And I think multi-modal what you were saying Frank is kind of essential here.

00:25:16: Sustainable both In The Way That Mobility Is Powered But Also In The way that Mobility Vehicles Are Produced.

00:25:23: When You Look At The Supply Chain It Can Be Quite Shocking.

00:25:26: What's happening across the board, doesn't matter which one.

00:25:30: And Affordable is pretty straightforward that I can find the right mobility solution for my situation no matter what that situation

00:25:42: is.".

00:25:44: I like this point especially when it rains really helps to know how you come from A-B.

00:25:49: and now on your experience let say if somebody is startup a founder wants to go in the industry, what kind of tips and tricks would you give them?

00:26:00: To support them actually maybe out-of your own like failures not do the same failures again.

00:26:08: Anna you want to start?

00:26:09: Probably two things... And I speak very specifically about cycling because that's where i have the most experience.

00:26:17: networked the hell out of it literally.

00:26:20: go to all of the events.

00:26:21: speak to all these people.

00:26:23: I went up to a CEO of one of the biggest suppliers, if not the biggest supplier in the motor and transmission part of the cycling industry.

00:26:34: And they just said hey my name is Anna.

00:26:35: this what we're doing out off-to-speak with you now that project with them.

00:26:54: If something doesn't work, let it go and let it grow early.

00:26:56: We tested different business models.

00:27:00: now in retrospective... ...and you're always smarter than hindsight would say that we should have left the business model a little bit earlier.

00:27:08: Nice!

00:27:08: Thank you so much Frank.

00:27:10: What learnings can you share?

00:27:13: I came into this industry from very different backgrounds.

00:27:18: It's good to get an outside perspective and really not trust everything that people talk about, just try to change things.

00:27:27: And this industry needs to go from... It's not the bike industry!

00:27:31: I don't see us for example as a next-bike company but as a micro mobility company.

00:27:36: so it already changes perspective of what you want to achieve.

00:27:41: You're becoming part of larger ecosystem.

00:27:46: go into this with an open mind and really challenge all the things that are out of there, because it's very old and fragmented.

00:27:56: And we need to have a new approach too.

00:27:58: so yeah just but come in.

00:28:01: this industry is needed!

00:28:05: I have high hopes like we're gonna change it.

00:28:09: Beautiful For the last seconds, we already talked about actually our closing question but I will give you now one sentence.

00:28:18: You can give to the audience something there should take away from our talk today.

00:28:24: We have a twenty five seconds to think and speak at the same time.

00:28:28: Cycling is ripe for innovation.

00:28:30: come go.

00:28:31: get it by either investing or starting your idea.

00:28:34: let's go!

00:28:35: Let's Go Frank.

00:28:42: Yeah, I mean let's move this micro-ability thing forward and not get stuck in the old world.

00:28:48: That is what i would say... ...and help to change completely mobility into a future.

00:28:55: Perfect with that!

00:28:56: Thank you both so much for your time coming over to Munich.

00:29:00: Thanks everybody for listening in And have a beautiful time at

00:29:05: EAA.

00:29:06: Stay tuned for the next and last episode of our Visionary Clubs special series featuring Stefanie Mai, Director at Women Automotive Network.

00:29:15: Mandy Böbinger, Managing Director Czech Republic in Slovakia at Renault Trucks.

00:29:20: Sabine Scheinert, Managing Director Central Europe at Dessault Systems.

00:29:24: And Tanya Kasal, Chief Cyber Security Governance Engineer at Carriott.